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LFalkenburg

fing.io - when do we get FINGBOX back?

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LFalkenburg

Today I just found that on https://www.fing.io there is a Kickstarter campaign mentioned wich will bring us back FINGBOX? Thats great news. So is this still a Projekt of DOMOTZ or did there something happen behind the scenes and what is the timetable?

 

Up to now I have to admit that domotz has some nice features and ideas but nothing is working as smoothly as FINGBOX worked. Its still a mess to install in each and every network segment a VMWare to run your agent instead of installing ONE and add f.e. VPN-, DMZ- and Transfer-, Printer-networks. Sometimes one is not able to install an agent nor to put up a box easily if the network is run in an Datacenter. So DOMOTZ is useless in Enterprise environments. The second part is, that some features still not working or goals are not hit in time. I losing more and more my patience, sorry.

 

We would pay the same amount for a FINGBOX revival as wo have to pay for DOMOTZ.

 

Regards Lutz Falkenburg

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ATCIS

I found your post amusing considering that you had this to say about mine:

 

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Domenico

Lutz,

The "new" Fingbox has very little to do with the one you were previously accustomed to, other than the name that is. It will be a $50-60 piece of hardware targeted to home users to address the basic security issue of who is on htier home network and to monitor/keep an eye on the performance of their home broadband. It will not even be a subscription service, just a one off purchase with a lifetime subscription but a limited use case around the home user. There will be none of the features you would expect in an enterprise or even in a small business environment. And more importantly, there will be no software version. It's in fact marketed to home users as a "hardware add-on" to the Fing app which is being downloaded over 30,000 time every day by consumers around the world. 

 

As I have hinted often in the past to our user base in the enterprise world, we are putting our Domotz agent through a heavy diet to make it skinnier and more portable across platforms (including windows, eventually). It's a very lengthy process as it requires us to either rewrite or merge the code of both Domotz and Fing to take the best of the cloud and remote connect features of the first and the search and identification/probing features of the last. We are doing progress and in fact are about to release a version of Domotz PRO for OpenWRT. In this spirit, Domotz PRO will be included for free in all new Luxul routers from December of this year (https://www.domotz.com/domotz-and-luxul-announce-official-partnership/) and we are discussing partnerships with other hardware manufacturers. Despite the fact that we are growing fast (we recently reached a headcount of 32) it's unlikely that a windows sentinel-like version will see the light of day before end of H1 of next year as we have a lot on our plate on many fronts.  

 

As with regards to Domotz PRO features which you think have not been delivered, you will get a direct follow up from our support team as I was not aware of any major delays in our release schedule and we'll certainly aim to do our very best to keep our friends and supporters both happy and excited, apologies if we haven't lived by that goal in this case - I am sure we can get back there.  

 

Thanks for the patience.

DC

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Domenico

Actually, ATCIS, VicAndr, Luke and everybody else out there. I had another beautiful idea, just to throw it out there.

 

If you all think you can garner enough support for a "Fingbox for Enterprise" crowdfunding campaign, happy to launch one tomorrow. If we can reach a minimum target of $350k, which is on the low side to develop properly all that is needed specifically for the enterprise side, I can ensure you that you will get whatever features you want. The more you pitch in, the more you can drive development!!! I am not kidding, so let me know if there is a genuine and concrete interest other than just nostalgia. 

ciao

DC 

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ATCIS

The only way that such a crowdfunding campaign would have a "Snowball's chance in Hell" in succeeding, would be to have access to the customer list (going back at least 3 or 4 years) formerly of Fingbox.  Besides that, those of us who were Fingbox loyalists until the bitter end have likely moved on.  For example: Our company has already invested $1200 in hardware for Domotz agents, and countless hours reconfiguring our customers networks to shoehorn that hardware into a viable enterprise network monitoring solution.  I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few other former Fingbox aficionados have done the same, and were forced to move on due to the scuttling of Fingbox.  Those of us who took advantage of the "six months for free" offer have one more hurdle to look forward to come February. . .  that being the $360+ Domotz bill that is going to come due for the next year of service :S    

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Domenico

ATCIS, it would be very helpful if you could share with us how much money you charge to your enterprise clients, so that we can better understand the business model here. With all due respect, Domotz charging you $36 a year on each one of them, does not seem to me an excessive burden in an enterprise world. 

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ATCIS

Dear Domenico,

To answer your question quite succinctly:

Fingbox - $0.00  We offered the service for free simply for being a valued customer.  We could do this as Fingbox was so affordable (inexpensive)

Domotz - $36 per network per year + $150 one time fee so that we can recoup the cost of the necessary hardware

 

. . . and you are right, in the grand scheme of things, $36 per network per year is not going to break the bank by any means.  Our main issue of contention regarding the cost, is that Domotz (as a company) offers zero incentive to the "Dealers" to deploy the product to as many networks as possible.  Ever heard of QUANTITY discount?  One of our products is Maintenance Contracts.  Our clients can purchase a block of billable hours in advance.  If you buy 10 hours in advance, the customer receives a 10% discount on those hours. 20 hours = 20% discount, up to 50 hours, which gives the customer a 50% discount on their billable hours.  It's a great deal for them, and we get a ton of money up front.  The bottom line is - both parties are happy.  I would think someone such as yourself who likely watches the bottom line pretty carefully, would understand the value of offering your sales force (i.e. your "Dealers") some incentive to "Spread the Word" about what I'm sure you think is an amazing product known as Domotz Pro.  In several of your posts on this forum you have insinuated that Domotz Pro is not designed to be an Enterprise friendly product.  I find this logic to be nonsensical.  Why would someone prefer to sell 100 things to 100 people, when you could sell 1000 things to 100 people?                      

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LFalkenburg

First of all my concerns aren't about money they are about functionality. 

 

Domenico you want to know prices? Networkmonitoring cost 15 € a month per customer per 100 nodes to monitor and is only an option if our customer had a support contract wich starts at 75€ a month going up to several thousand euros depending on SLAs, 24/7 support and so on. Monitoring devices means not putting all devices in a database, monitoring means getting alerts if the device is failing in any defined way (going offline, Port went down, other limits are reached etc.) Usually our customers get OBSERVIUM installed for collecting data of all SNMP capable devices. We are also Monitoring databases and f.e. apache with it and attached log server monitoring by our own. On the other hand we are monitoring the internet connections of our customers and their branches with UptimeRobot. That is our base monitoring setup. FING or DOMOTZ are just "for fun" on top because sometimes its interesting to know when did a device go offline. A device we are f.e. not responsible for because the customer has a separate service contract with RICOH. 

 

In the past we could help out our customers with additional informations we are not officially responsible for with the help of FINGBOX. It was great that installations where kind of "fire and forget". Once you hit the setup button, put in your FINGBOX login the job was done. If the customer has a firewall with client VPN connections, well, just add this network within seconds to FINBOX and we could answer questions like when was wich VPN client online and how long. The customer has a different network for their printers with an dedicated print server? No problem at all, just hit setup on the print server, and you got all the printers monitored. Got the point? FINGBOX was nifty and ultra fast deployed - even faster than a physical box wich must be patched and connected to a power supply. Download, install, enjoy.

 

Now talking about DOMOTZ. Most of the advantages we love in FINGBOX are gone (still now alphabetical sorting of the network overview). Gladly all of our Customers have virtualized Environments. Thanks to VMWare we could made our own DOMOTZ.ovf - BUT those virtual DOMOTZ-Boxes are far away from the slickness FINGBOX had. Don't get me wrong we love 2 new features we didn't get before or wich didn't worked very well in FINGBOX - its WOL and Guest access. But these are two bright stars in the night where once the whole milky way was seen. ;-)

 

If you would tell me something like: "okay, you are willing to pay the same price for any network you add to your agent?" I would answer: "Of course." In some monitoring environments MAC addresses are not needed (like VPN or Printers with fixed IPs). It would be necessary to have an option to simply add another reachable network range to monitor. Doesn't matter if those ranges lacks some functionality (same as in FINGBOX).

 

DOMOTZ is far away from enterprise networking compared with OBSERVIUM f.e but sometimes there are situation where a simple "is the device up/down and when changed the state" saves someones asses. 

 

Probably I haven't understand your business model? Probably we used FINGBOX totally wrong compared with their mission? Probably we are doing the same with DOMOTZ?

I can only explain our needs and that FINGBOX fulfill them enough. But DOMOTZ still doesn't. Sorry for saying. 

 

One last point: Probably our customer base is to small? We are only 10 People, managing around 40 networks, with around 10.000 nodes in sum. 19 customers got DOMOTZ, where we monitor around 2000 nodes but these 19 customers have more than this 2000 nodes. Problem: No way to reach the other nodes with DOMOTZ. Except we rebuild the networks.

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Domenico

Lutz, 

I understand from our support that most of the issues you had have indeed been resolved. Can you please confirm that the only thing bugging you as of now, other than the VM in principle, and domotz in general, is the ability to monitor remote networks, such as a VPN, by IP? Or do you have other issues that we are not aware of?

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LFalkenburg

Domenico,

yes and now. I can confirm that the ability to monitor remote networks, such as a VPN, by IP is the greatest issue for us. There are several other issues with minor priorities you already said you are working on it (sortable networks f.e.). And a lot of tiny bit nifty missing features. The list is endless. Like adding notes on networks, like an easy to read history for device activities, more icons for devices, devices tags, mass operations on devices.... just look at the new/old Fingbox ;-)

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jessetn

I too am a Fingbox refugee.  While it's still missing a few of the Fingbox features, I've been 90% happy with the transition, especially the remote access options.  My biggest gripe, which it seems is most every one else's:  forced to buy hardware or have a NAS, virtualization resources (which isn't updated automatically.  correct me if I'm wrong), and lack of windows client (or just generally universal).

 

I noticed future-Fingbox appears it's going to have some useful features Domotz currently does not.  Will Domotz be getting these? 

- Device block

- Bandwidth utilization by device

 

 

 

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Giancarlo
On 11/16/2016 at 6:16 PM, jessetn said:

I too am a Fingbox refugee.  While it's still missing a few of the Fingbox features, I've been 90% happy with the transition, especially the remote access options.  My biggest gripe, which it seems is most every one else's:  forced to buy hardware or have a NAS, virtualization resources (which isn't updated automatically.  correct me if I'm wrong), and lack of windows client (or just generally universal).

 

I noticed future-Fingbox appears it's going to have some useful features Domotz currently does not.  Will Domotz be getting these? 

- Device block

- Bandwidth utilization by device

 

 

 

 

I'm just answering with regard to the useful feature you mentioned. Actually the Device block feature is already available to the end-customer of Domotz Pro solution, through the Violet - Customer Facing App.

 

If you are interested in testing Violet, just drop an email to support.

 

Bandwidth utilization by device is also something that will come on Domotz as well.

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jessetn
8 hours ago, Giancarlo said:

 

I'm just answering with regard to the useful feature you mentioned. Actually the Device block feature is already available to the end-customer of Domotz Pro solution, through the Violet - Customer Facing App.

 

If you are interested in testing Violet, just drop an email to support.

 

Bandwidth utilization by device is also something that will come on Domotz as well.

Thanks for the info Giancarlo!

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yelti_be

+1 on bandwith per host.

Also /16 networks are usefull

 

We have some sites with low bandwith lines that get saturated by 1 user or so and I would to know who:-)

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Pepe

Since the fing utility is available for many platforms already, why don't you open source the fingbox interface wo we can use it and make it the de-facto security device for home use?

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